Reasons why the Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board should be abolished, and The Almighty Liquor Code completely overhauled and rewritten, to reflect over 80 years of change since Repeal.
I think the decision to rename all advertising, annual reports, etc for PLCB stores "Fine Wine & Good Spirits" (even though the stores themselves are getting the new name one by one, and the chain still has a long way to go) will go down in history as a major business blunder. It's almost as if the PLCB is diluting their own trademark. They interestingly though have run billboards saying both "Fine Wine & Good Spirits" and "PA Wine & Spirits Stores" (the latter really ought to say "our old really shitty stores").
Shouldn't they have made it a priority to rename all the premium collection stores Fine Wine & Good Spirits, and once that project were completed for the premium collection stores, only THEN apply the new name to the smallest stores?
Also, if any of you know why the PLCB is moving their Ardmore superstore to the SMALLER (than the current PLCB store on site) space a few stores down in the same center (the new PLCB store is a former DSW Shoe Warehouse), please let me know. It could be my imagination but I'm pretty sure the ex-DSW is smaller than the current PLCB store, unless the DSW had more space dedicated to back storage than to the showroom.
You "all I care about how booze is sold" crowd really need to find hobbies. The vast majority of everyday folks couldn't care less on what's on a booze stores shelves.
The vast majority of everyday folks couldn't care less on what's on a booze stores shelves.
Glad to see that you agree the PLCB is wasting time and resources. But I gotta wonder why the vast majority always wants to be rid of the state store system? Why has there has never been a poll in favor of keeping the state stores? Maybe they do care about price selection and service just like every other product they buy. Maybe it is just you who will take whatever the government gives you and are satisfied.
Why has there never been a poll? Better question: how did an UNELECTED bureaucracy ever be given exclusive rights to wine/spirits sales and regulations in PA, and the right to pull all the strings of beer commerce?
I happen to know of a sh1tstorm that will erupt in summer 2016 involving the PLCB, but I can't tell any of you what it is (confidentiality agreement)... regardless, it might be a major blow to the PLCB's standing and a boost to the privatization cause.
Why on earth would a far-left Democratic governor (especially one fairly new to office) let that happen though? I thought we had officially lost the momentum made under Corbett to win this fight.
The momentum gone? Not when the Republican majority in the Legislature INcreased! The governor's election was about the electorate's dissatisfaction with Corbett, the man, not his policies.
Why would Wolf agree to this? Because if he wants to get other things done, the solid Republican majority is going to make him pay for it. The dealing has begun. That's how things work. Neither side has enough power to put things through without dealing; neither side wants nothing to happen.
Who wants to keep the State Stores as a government monopoly? Any anti-alcohol group: but they have a diffuse and disunified power. Democratic legislators; but only because of union support. Unions...but only so far. The UFCW and ISSU workers who have jobs in the State Stores are 100% against normalization. But the Teamsters realize that normalization would mean a LOT of union jobs at new wholesalers, because private wholesalers will deliver to bars and restaurants. So maybe the union opposition isn't so strong as Wolf thinks, and maybe a deal can be made. In fact, if Windy Wendy Young was as smart as everyone tells me he is...he ought to make a deal, and the sooner the better.
What do the Teamsters have to do with alcohol wholesale? And why wouldn't Sam's Club, Costco, BJ's, etc be the inheritors of the PLCB wholesale business? Not sure about the other two but Sam's Club (part of Walmart) is of course non-union and VERY anti-union. In fact, did you hear about Walmart recently closing several stores for what they claim will be months because of "plumbing" issues? As it turns out, the stores were closed to shut down union action surrounding these particular stores.
"What do the Teamsters have to do with alcohol wholesale?"
Are you damaged? Here, just as one example, I'll quote from the website of Philadelphia's Origlio Beverage, a large and well-known alcohol (beer) wholesaler: "Origlio employs nearly 300 individuals and approximately 70% of them are members of Teamsters Local 830."
THAT is what Teamsters have to do with alcohol wholesale. That's just ONE wholesaler; there are many across the state, many MORE than there are now -- ONE, the state, and the state doesn't deliver to individual businesses. Take the state out of the monopoly wholesaler biz, and jobs will multiply, and the Teamsters know that, even if you don't.
Your "big box" argument is a load of crap too, but I'll take it out in one simple phrase: "three-tier system." By law, those companies can be either retailer, or wholesaler: they can't be both. Besides, in Senator Wagner's plan (which may have the inside track), they wouldn't be eligible for retail. They'd have to buy a beer distributor's license for each store that wanted to sell beer, wine, or liquor. Do you see those stores buying up beer licenses now? This whole "privatization means big box domination" argument is a steaming load, but arguing that they'll take over wholesaling is simply laughable.
By the way, if you're new to this game...if you just say the same thing over and over? Your comments don't get posted. Think up something new.
I understand now why the Teamsters would get involved, but won't beer sales stay the same in PA once wine and spirits sales change? More and more supermarkets are adding beer cafes, so I don't see any hurry whatsoever to get rid of the beer distributors, even if new laws were to make the beer distributors obsolete, at least obsolete to the NON-wholesale customers, which is most of the general public.
And just for clarification, are you suggesting wholesale clubs (the big-box chains) will never be allowed to sell booze in PA? I actually can see them never selling beer, but would be very surprised if (under privatization) they were to be banned/barred from selling what the state stores now do.
My apologies for my tone in the last response; I thought you were deliberately tweaking the situation. It's complicated, and Pennsylvania's laws and lingo don't make it easier.
Beer sales may or may not change: there is no passed bill at this point. The people want beer and wine sales in supermarkets, but that doesn't mean the Legislature will give it to them. The "beer cafe" solution is a bad one; it uses up bar/restaurant licenses, which only drives up the price, which leads to chain bars and nuisance bars. The Legislature needs to address this, but they won't, because it takes the pressure off them, the pressure to actually make a decision.
No one's getting rid of the beer distributors; the latest proposal would make them the first businesses eligible to get wine and spirits sales, which would be a huge benefit for them.
But the rest of what you say makes me think you don't get the difference between retail and wholesale, at least, where the legalities of alcohol sales are concerned. Under three-tier laws, producer/importers may not sell directly to retailers; they must sell to a wholesaler. The wholesaler then sells to the bars, restaurants, "beer cafes," and to the beer distributors. Those three "tiers" are legally separate as businesses. There are some exceptions -- breweries and wineries are allowed to sell directly in a limited way, a wholesaler's relative may own a retail outlet -- but generally, the same business can't operate in more than one tier.
As for the big box chains, they may be called "wholesale clubs," but in the eyes of the PA Liquor Code, they are retailers. Period.
But as far as banning/barring any particular type of store from selling booze...the 21st Amendment has been held to grant VERY broad latitude to states on writing alcohol law. That is, after all, how we wound up with the State Store System. The Legislature could put a square footage limit on licensees, or limit businesses to five licenses or fewer, and that would seriously curtail the operations of the big box chains. Those kinds of laws are already in effect in other states, and have passed constitutional muster. They can make this law anyway they want to.
Interesting, in the eyes of TEXAS (a state where beer/wine are in most supermarkets, but spirits are restricted to private stores closed Sundays, and cities such as Houston have both wet and dry neighborhoods), Sam's Club and Costco sell beer, wine, AND spirits at wholesale, to both members and non-members alike.
See, "at wholesale" just means low prices. "Wholesale" in three-tier terms means something else. Sam's is buying from a wholesaler, not direct from the brewer.
I think the decision to rename all advertising, annual reports, etc for PLCB stores "Fine Wine & Good Spirits" (even though the stores themselves are getting the new name one by one, and the chain still has a long way to go) will go down in history as a major business blunder. It's almost as if the PLCB is diluting their own trademark. They interestingly though have run billboards saying both "Fine Wine & Good Spirits" and "PA Wine & Spirits Stores" (the latter really ought to say "our old really shitty stores").
ReplyDeleteShouldn't they have made it a priority to rename all the premium collection stores Fine Wine & Good Spirits, and once that project were completed for the premium collection stores, only THEN apply the new name to the smallest stores?
Also, if any of you know why the PLCB is moving their Ardmore superstore to the SMALLER (than the current PLCB store on site) space a few stores down in the same center (the new PLCB store is a former DSW Shoe Warehouse), please let me know. It could be my imagination but I'm pretty sure the ex-DSW is smaller than the current PLCB store, unless the DSW had more space dedicated to back storage than to the showroom.
Your questions are better asked on the Facebook page.
ReplyDeleteYou "all I care about how booze is sold" crowd really need to find hobbies. The vast majority of everyday folks couldn't care less on what's on a booze stores shelves.
ReplyDeleteAnd yet, here you are, making a foolish comment on our blog. You need a hobby.
ReplyDeleteThe vast majority of everyday folks couldn't care less on what's on a booze stores shelves.
ReplyDeleteGlad to see that you agree the PLCB is wasting time and resources. But I gotta wonder why the vast majority always wants to be rid of the state store system? Why has there has never been a poll in favor of keeping the state stores? Maybe they do care about price selection and service just like every other product they buy. Maybe it is just you who will take whatever the government gives you and are satisfied.
Why has there never been a poll? Better question: how did an UNELECTED bureaucracy ever be given exclusive rights to wine/spirits sales and regulations in PA, and the right to pull all the strings of beer commerce?
ReplyDeleteThere have been numerous polls but none were in favor of keeping the state stores.
ReplyDeleteAs for the PLCB, the legislature gave them that power and hopefully, the legislature will taketh away.
I happen to know of a sh1tstorm that will erupt in summer 2016 involving the PLCB, but I can't tell any of you what it is (confidentiality agreement)... regardless, it might be a major blow to the PLCB's standing and a boost to the privatization cause.
ReplyDeleteOn the bright side there might not be any state stores in summer 2016 so it might not matter.
ReplyDeleteWhy on earth would a far-left Democratic governor (especially one fairly new to office) let that happen though? I thought we had officially lost the momentum made under Corbett to win this fight.
ReplyDeleteThe momentum gone? Not when the Republican majority in the Legislature INcreased! The governor's election was about the electorate's dissatisfaction with Corbett, the man, not his policies.
ReplyDeleteWhy would Wolf agree to this? Because if he wants to get other things done, the solid Republican majority is going to make him pay for it. The dealing has begun. That's how things work. Neither side has enough power to put things through without dealing; neither side wants nothing to happen.
Who wants to keep the State Stores as a government monopoly? Any anti-alcohol group: but they have a diffuse and disunified power. Democratic legislators; but only because of union support. Unions...but only so far. The UFCW and ISSU workers who have jobs in the State Stores are 100% against normalization. But the Teamsters realize that normalization would mean a LOT of union jobs at new wholesalers, because private wholesalers will deliver to bars and restaurants. So maybe the union opposition isn't so strong as Wolf thinks, and maybe a deal can be made. In fact, if Windy Wendy Young was as smart as everyone tells me he is...he ought to make a deal, and the sooner the better.
What do the Teamsters have to do with alcohol wholesale? And why wouldn't Sam's Club, Costco, BJ's, etc be the inheritors of the PLCB wholesale business? Not sure about the other two but Sam's Club (part of Walmart) is of course non-union and VERY anti-union. In fact, did you hear about Walmart recently closing several stores for what they claim will be months because of "plumbing" issues? As it turns out, the stores were closed to shut down union action surrounding these particular stores.
ReplyDelete"What do the Teamsters have to do with alcohol wholesale?"
ReplyDeleteAre you damaged? Here, just as one example, I'll quote from the website of Philadelphia's Origlio Beverage, a large and well-known alcohol (beer) wholesaler: "Origlio employs nearly 300 individuals and approximately 70% of them are members of Teamsters Local 830."
THAT is what Teamsters have to do with alcohol wholesale. That's just ONE wholesaler; there are many across the state, many MORE than there are now -- ONE, the state, and the state doesn't deliver to individual businesses. Take the state out of the monopoly wholesaler biz, and jobs will multiply, and the Teamsters know that, even if you don't.
Your "big box" argument is a load of crap too, but I'll take it out in one simple phrase: "three-tier system." By law, those companies can be either retailer, or wholesaler: they can't be both. Besides, in Senator Wagner's plan (which may have the inside track), they wouldn't be eligible for retail. They'd have to buy a beer distributor's license for each store that wanted to sell beer, wine, or liquor. Do you see those stores buying up beer licenses now? This whole "privatization means big box domination" argument is a steaming load, but arguing that they'll take over wholesaling is simply laughable.
By the way, if you're new to this game...if you just say the same thing over and over? Your comments don't get posted. Think up something new.
I understand now why the Teamsters would get involved, but won't beer sales stay the same in PA once wine and spirits sales change? More and more supermarkets are adding beer cafes, so I don't see any hurry whatsoever to get rid of the beer distributors, even if new laws were to make the beer distributors obsolete, at least obsolete to the NON-wholesale customers, which is most of the general public.
ReplyDeleteAnd just for clarification, are you suggesting wholesale clubs (the big-box chains) will never be allowed to sell booze in PA? I actually can see them never selling beer, but would be very surprised if (under privatization) they were to be banned/barred from selling what the state stores now do.
My apologies for my tone in the last response; I thought you were deliberately tweaking the situation. It's complicated, and Pennsylvania's laws and lingo don't make it easier.
ReplyDeleteBeer sales may or may not change: there is no passed bill at this point. The people want beer and wine sales in supermarkets, but that doesn't mean the Legislature will give it to them. The "beer cafe" solution is a bad one; it uses up bar/restaurant licenses, which only drives up the price, which leads to chain bars and nuisance bars. The Legislature needs to address this, but they won't, because it takes the pressure off them, the pressure to actually make a decision.
No one's getting rid of the beer distributors; the latest proposal would make them the first businesses eligible to get wine and spirits sales, which would be a huge benefit for them.
But the rest of what you say makes me think you don't get the difference between retail and wholesale, at least, where the legalities of alcohol sales are concerned. Under three-tier laws, producer/importers may not sell directly to retailers; they must sell to a wholesaler. The wholesaler then sells to the bars, restaurants, "beer cafes," and to the beer distributors. Those three "tiers" are legally separate as businesses. There are some exceptions -- breweries and wineries are allowed to sell directly in a limited way, a wholesaler's relative may own a retail outlet -- but generally, the same business can't operate in more than one tier.
As for the big box chains, they may be called "wholesale clubs," but in the eyes of the PA Liquor Code, they are retailers. Period.
But as far as banning/barring any particular type of store from selling booze...the 21st Amendment has been held to grant VERY broad latitude to states on writing alcohol law. That is, after all, how we wound up with the State Store System. The Legislature could put a square footage limit on licensees, or limit businesses to five licenses or fewer, and that would seriously curtail the operations of the big box chains. Those kinds of laws are already in effect in other states, and have passed constitutional muster. They can make this law anyway they want to.
Interesting, in the eyes of TEXAS (a state where beer/wine are in most supermarkets, but spirits are restricted to private stores closed Sundays, and cities such as Houston have both wet and dry neighborhoods), Sam's Club and Costco sell beer, wine, AND spirits at wholesale, to both members and non-members alike.
ReplyDeleteSee, "at wholesale" just means low prices. "Wholesale" in three-tier terms means something else. Sam's is buying from a wholesaler, not direct from the brewer.
ReplyDelete