tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post6648345434516114955..comments2024-03-13T11:10:25.333-04:00Comments on Why The PLCB Should Be Abolished: The Memphis 44 Resurrection Raids: and why you should careLew Brysonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-82599754698450342222010-03-14T03:13:05.417-04:002010-03-14T03:13:05.417-04:00East End brings up a great point! If its on the B...East End brings up a great point! If its on the Brewer [Supplier] to pay the yearly registration for aged cellar beers, then the brewer has to be able to formulate, and then state in writing on the bottle, some kind of aging boundary line per beer. <br /><br />Please..it would be helpful regarding people who hoard...seriously, I know a couple people who have this problem and I want to help them be able to pour something out well past its prime. Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-27546724405663277542010-03-10T23:08:26.571-05:002010-03-10T23:08:26.571-05:00Registration is in reality, a rubber stamp process...Registration is in reality, a rubber stamp process. I submit out Fed label approval with a relatively simple PALCB form, along with $75 per brand, and in a bit, I get a letter saying it's been added. Sometimes they butcher the names a bit, which scares me in this context, looking at the great Duvel registration screwup of 2010, but what can I do? Take my business to another state?<br /><br />A larger problem for us is we brew a LOT of small brands in teenie tiny quantities. Sure, it's more admin work, and more $75 fees, but the bigger thing is timing. Say I release a new one-time-only, small batch, hand bottled beer in December, just before the holidays. Let's say all the bottle shops buy it up, and because it's a bigger beer, some tuck some away for cellaring long term.<br /><br />So how long do I need to keep re-registering this beer? Until I run out and stop selling it to consumers here at the brewery? Until my distributor runs out of it? Until every single bottle shop that's gotten some has sold their last bottle? How many years might that be, and how in the heck do I know who's been keeping what in their secret stash?<br /><br />I actually see some value in the state knowing that the label has met Federal approval (though I suppose the Feds already have that part covered... protecting the consumer from bogus label claims and the like), but the system is based on big breweries that make one, two, maybe three kinds of beer per year - just like it was in prohibition-era US, which is exactly when this outdated code was written.EastEndBrewinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06540848396933124634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-68475530072638416932010-03-10T10:08:08.858-05:002010-03-10T10:08:08.858-05:00A unified federal system? Think back a couple of ...A unified federal system? Think back a couple of years to when homebrewing was illegal. With a federal system it still would be. Creating such a system would ensure that no state could take the lead, paving the way for the less creaive legislators to follow. Tying the leaders to the laggarts is rarely a productive step. Plus, do you really trust the feds to get it right?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13984366272337993139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-44420259943789502382010-03-10T03:10:23.540-05:002010-03-10T03:10:23.540-05:00"The manager told me that when the head enfor..."The manager told me that when the head enforcement agent left, he stopped long enough to shake his finger in the manager's face in rage, and yelled at him, "I know you have untaxed alcohol in here, and I'm going to find it!" He never returned."<br /><br />Craft Beers of Mass Destruction!Jeff Rosenmeierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14394121696731343956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-62916813710998145742010-03-09T18:12:24.120-05:002010-03-09T18:12:24.120-05:00Actually, Rich, I really like that voluntary unifo...Actually, Rich, I really like that voluntary uniformity idea. That's worth looking at. Thanks!Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-75871436365873604642010-03-09T16:13:57.058-05:002010-03-09T16:13:57.058-05:00I'm not saying that a unified system would be ...I'm not saying that a unified system would be easy, heck, just trying to get something going in PA is tough enough...I also don't necessarily agree with it and I understand that the 21st give's the states the power. HOWEVER, don't you think that ONE unified registration system, that is OPTIONAL (but encouraged) for states to adopt would make things easier for the brewers and distributors. Heck, if a brewery could register beers in 25 states in one shot you bet they are going to do it. Plus, it would encourage other states to join as they lose brands.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06900534233446433658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-35828722635088240942010-03-09T14:55:37.625-05:002010-03-09T14:55:37.625-05:00Wasn't covered, Jay, and it's a good quest...Wasn't covered, Jay, and it's a good question: no one appears to know.Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-51744730166490734172010-03-09T14:53:45.092-05:002010-03-09T14:53:45.092-05:00Do you know what the punishment would be? Is it a...Do you know what the punishment would be? Is it a removal of the liquor license or a fine?<br /><br />)Sorry if it was covered earlier and I missed it)Jay Zeishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06420745158411547253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-31421413320353341612010-03-09T09:36:43.424-05:002010-03-09T09:36:43.424-05:00CLB has it right, Rich: it will be much easier to ...CLB has it right, Rich: it will be much easier to rewrite the PA Code than to get a combined federal booze standard. States will fight it, anti-booze outfits will fight it. It won't happen.Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-18429787383151188712010-03-09T09:34:03.042-05:002010-03-09T09:34:03.042-05:00I am not a lawyer, and agree that a unified federa...I am not a lawyer, and agree that a unified federal standard would at least be a good start at simplification. But http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-first_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution seems to suggest that the terms of repeal of Prohibition gives all states the right to do as they please with regulation of alcohol, regardless of how silly it is. <br /><br />So changing that would require yet another Constitutional amendment.CLBetleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10907901365466488219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-649781181727730192010-03-09T08:16:46.441-05:002010-03-09T08:16:46.441-05:00We should just all fight for a unified system at t...We should just all fight for a unified system at the federal level. Wouldn't it make things a lot easier for the breweries if they had to go through one approval process and then that's it, they didn't have to do it for all 50 states. It sounds ridiculous to me. Not that I'm for any kind of control to begin with, but if there is control it should somehow be unified...wouldn't that make sense?Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06900534233446433658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-17874988521903156892010-03-09T00:24:43.995-05:002010-03-09T00:24:43.995-05:00Well Lew, its a good reason to be a homebrewer. Bu...Well Lew, its a good reason to be a homebrewer. But as in Philly, here in the Burg' there is 7% sales tax along with (and I am sure you will love this when going to the Church, Sharp Edge, Haufbrauhouse,ect) a 10% pour tax added to each booze you purchase in this fine county. Having been to other states and many AHA confrences, seeing how other states get so many more choices is just depressing. And when you try to explain to them what we have to go through to get booze, they give you that puzzled dog look and I think they just feel sorry for you.<br /><br />My beers are unregistered, but then I cant sell them either. I tried to see when brewers that I met at conferences would have thier beers here. Some said they were trying, others just laughed. I think I will go to Ohio or Maryland to get the beers, but Maryland is talking about a whole new round of tax increases on booze. So it looks like those of us who like to have a drink are going to be looked upon to save the masses from government and mis-management.Martynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-17729420995583414752010-03-08T20:34:28.083-05:002010-03-08T20:34:28.083-05:00I read the daily news article today where I work-a...I read the daily news article today where I work-a beer distributor in PA. Just by the facts laid out in the story, the PLCB could raid our store. This sounds like some type of vendetta. Either the PLCB doesn't like Brendan, or like you said it's some brewery that was scorned. Either way it's bullshit. What idiots these cops must have been. I wonder if they think they are serving justice?Tenaciousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-22596268450621110722010-03-08T20:10:19.295-05:002010-03-08T20:10:19.295-05:00Sometimes I think Connecticut is worse than PA. O...Sometimes I think Connecticut is worse than PA. Our rules are so ridiculous that brewers regularly avoid our state. There are a series of "Bad Elf" beers that have come out over the last few years. They tried to have their beers approved in CT. They were rejected because of the cartoon elf on the label. It might entice children to drink was their logic. It's no wonder why many brewers don't even try here. I drive to Mass on a regular basis to buy beer. BTW, I am a PA expat. I am amazed that I found a state that is in many ways worse than PA for obtaining beer!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01687487365349651882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-75966718680027114802010-03-08T19:55:59.502-05:002010-03-08T19:55:59.502-05:00That's a good one Chris. This case is certainl...That's a good one Chris. This case is certainly shining a light on Distributors, the role that they play, and the potential for them not fulfilling their contractual and ethical obligations. Though, as the bar owner, if there's a list out there (the integrity of which is rightfully in question), I would want to know whether the products that I'm selling are on that list or not. Now maybe I won't check it every week with every new release....or maybe I will. It's not a 5 minute job, but it shouldn't be a 5 day job either. If I know that there's the potential for trouble and there's a list that could be used against me, if I don't have time to do it, I'll delegate to an employee who might be looking for a couple of more hours of work a week.<br /><br />On a related note, the level of disorganization when it comes to information management that I've seen in the industry is astounding. Particularly at the distributor level and organizations whose "job" it is to collect information about the industry. (don't misconstrue this as a blanket statement about all). The format in which spreadsheets are kept that I've seen, for example, allow me not to be surprised when things play out here as they have in this case related to misinformation, miscommunication, etc.Bryan Kolesarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13063224838193829628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-20922946380530175472010-03-08T19:34:43.745-05:002010-03-08T19:34:43.745-05:00I agree with the comment about the blind eye turne...I agree with the comment about the blind eye turned to the distributors. If you buy a product from a legally operating business don't you have the right to believe its legal? A lot of bars carry unregistered brands and have no idea they're doing it. It's like walking into CVS and buying cold medicine and then getting busted outside for possessing an illegal drug.Lappynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-35110070450774891562010-03-08T17:19:22.133-05:002010-03-08T17:19:22.133-05:00It wasn't until I moved from PA three years ag...It wasn't until I moved from PA three years ago (after living there for my first 44 years) to Massachusetts that I discovered how the rest of the world lives. Instead of buying a case of beer only I can buy one bottle, or a six pack or a mixed six pack. And at the convenience store or grocery store - and wine too! And the selection is HUGE. Time for PA to adopt the way most of the rest of the states in the USA work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-10038968577100182822010-03-08T17:16:31.059-05:002010-03-08T17:16:31.059-05:00I'm a PA expat living in the evil (in terms of...I'm a PA expat living in the evil (in terms of sports) NYC. One of my friends pointed me here. I use to do some bartending in PA and developed a quest for the good beer. I felt like I came off the mormon compound going into bars, talking to the owners and even going to the grocery store. This should be a rallying cry for the beer community. Yea, it sounds like Brendan broke the law but if they made logical laws maybe they wouldn't be broken. Can someone make up a form to hand out at bars that petitions the lawmakers? Surely the more attention this gets the more people will rally for sensible liquor laws. Has anyone contacted the local NPR stations, it sounds like a good local interest story? Good luck and hopefully the next time I'm in PA I can raise a pint of newly legal beer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-28019258594615093572010-03-08T16:21:53.033-05:002010-03-08T16:21:53.033-05:00The suggestion to contact your legislators is an e...The suggestion to contact your legislators is an excellent one. If you need to find out who they are, or need their contact info, go here:<br />http://www.votesmart.org/search.phpXtiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-19479556768571305982010-03-08T13:42:18.036-05:002010-03-08T13:42:18.036-05:00Steve, the very best possible outcome of this situ...Steve, the very best possible outcome of this situation would be for <i>everyone</i> to do what you have done. The Almighty Liquor Code is full of this kind of thing. It needs an enema.Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-15938264262147836182010-03-08T13:34:13.496-05:002010-03-08T13:34:13.496-05:00Hey Lew, reading further into that Unlawful Activi...Hey Lew, reading further into that Unlawful Activities list - there is so many ridiculous laws I never even knew about. Advertising strength of beer and advertising without sufficient quantity - to happy hour laws. Wow what a mess. This whole thing is like reading one of those old marriage handbooks from the 20's... and I'm pretty sure #23 is aimed directly at me . -"It is unlawful to hawk"Steve Hawkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02505487523771347894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-88220078452822757492010-03-08T11:38:29.120-05:002010-03-08T11:38:29.120-05:00I think if Brendan and Leigh have to get named, th...I think if Brendan and Leigh have to get named, the other side ought to get named, too. It's potentially devastating to their businesses, and I think their lawyer should demand the name of the "citizen" so there's someone to sue. <br /><br />Oh and also the PLCB should be dissolved for matters such as this. They're highly incompetent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-16326387457473842232010-03-08T11:31:55.507-05:002010-03-08T11:31:55.507-05:00No argument, Brad. There's more than one whole...No argument, Brad. There's more than one wholesaler involved, and even the PLCB should be able to follow-up and figure out who sold the beers. I doubt this is over. I just hope the rage from consumers over this out-dated and unnecessary registration issue stays hot.Lew Brysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04084380741402026573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-15186879380736653372010-03-08T11:27:27.444-05:002010-03-08T11:27:27.444-05:00Lew/Rich,
But the distributors are still selling ...Lew/Rich,<br /><br />But the distributors are still <i>selling or offering to sell</i> the unregistered brands, so it would appear they, like a retailer, are running afoul of the code. I get what you're saying about power and lawyers, but from a purely rational standpoint, it sure would be a lot more efficient and sensible to find out which wholesaler sold the forbidden beer, and go there to round up <i>all</i> the bad beer and not just what you can snag from a bar or two.<br /><br />I don't even live in PA but after I read the Daily News article I called and left a message with the enforcement board to tell them how ridiculous they look for not even having the competence to properly conduct their raids.<br /><br />I just hope everyone expressing outrage in the comments section over on Philly.com also put forth some of that effort toward contacting their elected representatives.Bradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10062313544846423344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-591881213265091346.post-70775952841404771712010-03-08T11:17:45.944-05:002010-03-08T11:17:45.944-05:00it's a vendetta by the PLCB against Brendan ha...it's a vendetta by the PLCB against Brendan harntranft, settling a score. As detailed at this blog and at the Philly Weekly, which did a huge cover story on the neanderthal PLCB, BH has baited them in the past, he continues to speak out against the corrupt and incompetent racket, and he made their whole organization look stupid.<br /><br />So IMO, this is the PLCB trying to have the last hamhanded laugh. i predict it backfires.Brendanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05780508013547903940noreply@blogger.com